If you live in Portland, it’s likely you’ve seen Scott McCaughey at a show. A consummate musician, McCaughey plays with luminaries such as R.E.M. and Robyn Hitchcock while manning his numerous own bands ranging from the Young Fresh Fellows to the Minus 5 to the newly created Baseball Project. McCaughey was kind enough to meet me for a drink, which turned into several beers. Over the course of 90 minutes we talked about two of America’s favorite pastimes: music and baseball. I am pleased to present the Spectrum Culture interview with Scott McCaughey.
Tell me about this series of shows you are playing at the Crystal Hotel that is about to open.
I’m going to be playing in a room called Al’s Den. It’s down in the basement. It’s a pretty small room. The stage is going to be 8×8, a small stage with a little PA. It’s going to be pretty informal and pretty intimate. I think the idea they are cultivating is that an artist can come and play three sets a night and try out new things or work out bugs in new material. It’s 7pm to 10pm each night for five nights in a row. I don’t know if I’m going to look at it just like that because that’s a lot of time to play. That’s like 15 hours of music. I don’t feel like I need to pack it out every night. I’ll be there playing and whoever wants to can come in and listen. It’s free. It’s not like a gig where you’re paying to go see somebody. I’m going to take the opportunity, and this is the reason I took the gig and not for money or anything like that, just to force myself to play a bunch of songs that maybe I don’t normally play or haven’t played in a long time. Maybe try out some new songs. It’s a way to make me get off my ass and play a lot of songs. I play in so many bands that I go from one thing to the next. Now I’m playing with Robyn Hitchcock so I forget about all the other songs I know how to play. Now I’m playing with R.E.M. and learning these 75 R.E.M. songs and I’m forgetting about all the other songs I know how to play. With the Young Fresh Fellows, I forget all the Minus 5 songs. There’s not enough room in my brain to hold all of these songs so this is an opportunity for me to try and get out there and have a big catalogue of songs that I can play. It’s kind of scary because I am usually pretty terrified to play by myself. I am not nervous at all when I’m playing with a band but by myself it’s hard. But, I am going to have some friends come in and play on some things. It’s not all worked out yet though. It would be too much ask for anybody to listen to me play for three hours in a row by myself (laughs). Hopefully, it will be really fun. I don’t honestly know what it’s going to be like. I’m looking at it as an experience that I should put myself through and hopefully be really fun.
Who will the McCaughey Friends be?
Well, Peter Buck is going to play the first night. It’s the only night he will be around and he’s making a special effort to play that night, which is nice. Ezra Holbrook, who I play with a lot in the Minus 5, will definitely come and play. Tucker Jackson, who is a pedal steel player, will come and play one or two nights. I think Jeremy Wilson from the Dharma Bums and Pilot is going to come and do a few songs. Maybe John Moen on the last night if the Decemberists get back in time. That’s about all I could arrange so far.
It’s a Who’s Who of Portland musicians.
It’s just people who are around. I actually did try and see if the Young Fresh Fellows would come down and do a night because I thought that would be really fun, but they are not all available. It’s possible one or two might come down, but highly unlikely. It’s going to be somewhat experimental.
Will do you some cover songs?
Yes, I will definitely do some covers. There’s certain ones that I will do with a band like “Strychnine” or songs by Neil Young. Pretty straightforward and loud.
“Powderfinger”?
I’ve never played “Powderfinger” before but I would actually like to. It will probably happen someday. I know the chords but I never played it with a band where we worked out the riffs and all that stuff. There’s always going to be Neil Young when I’m playing.
What are your favorite Neil Young songs to play?
There’s a million. Just a few months ago, the Minus 5 did a tribute show where we played Zuma. Two years ago, we played Time Fades Away.
That one’s not available on CD, is it?
No, it’s not. That’s the one that’s still unavailable.
You can’t get Journey Through the Past either, right?
Yeah, but that doesn’t really have anything on it (laughs). It has “Soldier” but everything else is songs that are available elsewhere or the Beach Boys.
Let’s go on a tangent for a moment. With all these old artists such as Neil Young and Bob Dylan, there are the albums that everyone loves. Then there is the one kind of runt that you still get behind. Everyone has a different one. Which is yours?
The runt, huh? I like a lot of his that people probably aren’t that crazy about. I love Re-ac-tor. I think that’s a great album.
“T-Bone”?
(laughs) Yeah, nine minutes of nothing. I love that one a lot. There’s things about all of them that I like. I can’t wholeheartedly say that Landing on Water is my favorite record though.
Can anyone?
No. I guess Re-ac-tor is one people aren’t necessarily fond of that I really, really like. I like Broken Arrow. I think that record is awesome.
Yeah, what’s up with that last track?
That’s just them jamming in a bar that someone recorded on a cassette. That didn’t need to be on there, you know, but that’s classic Neil (laughs).
I think Hawks and Doves is one of his best. It has one of his best songs on it.
Which one is that?
“Captain Kennedy.”
That’s a good song. I like that song a lot. I like Hawks and Doves too, all 29 minutes of it (laughs). That’s a very short record. It’s a great record.
Yeah, Landing on Water is pretty bad.
I like a lot of the songs on that record. It’s just the production is really bad. The guitar is just really, really quiet.
Life has the same kind of production.
Yeah, the weird thing about Life is I heard those songs live before the record came out and it just sounded like Crazy Horse. Then they put all those synthy keyboards on top of it and totally changed it. I thought it was great when I heard them play it live. They did a live broadcast of it and I think they actually used the tracks from the live broadcast as the basic tracks on the record and then overdubbed shit on top of it. That is really strange, but I like a lot of those songs too.
So you’re going to need 15 hours of material for these five nights you’re playing.
I was thinking that if I didn’t repeat any songs I would have to know like 225 songs (laughs).
I challenge you!
I know, I know! Believe me, I’m thinking, “Can I do that?” But it would be really, really hard, so I probably won’t do that. I will probably play well over 100. I’d like to think I could do that.
Will you be using lyric sheets or sheet music at all?
I’m going to try not to. I thought about it. I thought it wouldn’t be embarrassing if I brought a little binder with lyrics and stuff but I don’t really want to do that.
If Michael Stipe can do it, so can you.
(laughs) Michael does it as a crutch. He doesn’t really use it all that much, I don’t think. It’s just a thing for him to have it there. To me, it would be a little bit of a distraction. I would think, “I don’t have to worry about it. I have the words right here in front of me” but I’d rather just put myself out there. Believe me, I will fuck up the words and I will fuck up the chords. That will happen. But that’s the way it is.
Do “T-Bone.”
(laughs) Yeah, right. That would be really good to do a solo version of that. I don’t think Neil’s even done that.
I haven’t seen Neil Young since Greendale because he’s priced me out.
He’s played smaller places, which is nice, but then the tickets cost triple of what they would be if he was playing a big place. The thing is about Neil is I don’t let him get under my skin because I just accept the fact that his greatness is the fact that you don’t really know what he’s going to do and what’s going to happen. I just love that about him. I just absolutely love that about him. I will never really complain about him because it’s a part of what makes him great.
You mentioned earlier before the interview that one of the perks of getting older is you can say you saw certain baseball players play and bands play. Who have you seen?
When I was a kid I went to see the Giants all the time. This was in the ’60s so I saw Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Juan Marichal and Orlando Cepeda. It was a pretty amazing team. I got to see Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn, Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax – all the guys that were playing against them. When the A’s came to Bay Area I got to go to World Series games with Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Joe Rudi and Gene Tenace. That great A’s team of the early ’70s. That was pretty amazing. I wish I could say I saw the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix. I came really close to both of those but I didn’t make it. It was reliant on having my parents drive me to the Oakland Coliseum and Candlestick Park. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t.
Are you still a Giants fan?
Yeah, definitely.
I’m a Phillies fan (shakes fist at McCaughey).
Yeah, if the Phillies don’t make it to the World Series this year then something is definitely wrong.
In your lifetime, how have you seen baseball change and do you like what you see?
Well, I don’t like what I’ve seen. There are still great players out there and I’m just a fan of the game. The game hasn’t changed that much, it’s more the players. Obviously, the whole steroid thing was freakish and not good. The biggest change has been free agency. You don’t have a team where you really get to know the players and they are there for 15 years. That just doesn’t happen anymore. That’s a really different thing. But, of course I am completely in favor of free agency because they were indentured servants before that. Now they make way too much money and it’s obscene. But people talk about the Black Sox scandal where they were bribed to throw the series but this was 1919 and they just weren’t getting paid any money. I don’t blame them. The one thing that hasn’t changed about baseball is almost every team is run by a fucked-up right wing billionaire that doesn’t want to pay anything more than he has to pay and is making money hand over fist and pretending he’s not making any money (laughs).
What current players will be remembered as Willie Mays and those other guys are remembered?
Well, Albert Pujols. He definitely ranks up there. I think Ichiro is going to be remembered for his singular skills.
I saw him play in Japan when I lived there.
Oh, no kidding!
I don’t remember what team he was on.
The Orix Blue Wave.
It was at the Chiba Marines stadium.
Wow!
I saw him and Matsui both play.
That’s cool! That’s really cool. I tried to go to a game in Japan the last time I was there. It was the last day of the season and there was a monsoon. So, the game was rained out. There was this total typhoon that wiped it out.
The Japanese are strange fans. They have organized chants and the food is like squid on a stick. They are really into it.
I am dying to do it. We were hoping somebody over there would put out the Baseball Project record and we could go there and play. But nothing has happened so far. It’s odd because I’ve had labels there put out Minus 5 records. I’ve been over there many times with the Fellows, the Minus 5, Robyn Hitchcock and R.E.M. I think their record industry is not doing so well like ours. And they are having a problem there where you can get imports from the States for cheaper. CDs over there are like $25.
Back to money, I remember 10 years ago that Alex Rodriguez was getting paid $42,000 per at-bat.
That’s ridiculous. He got a $250 million contract and that was quite a while ago. It’s hard to get behind some of the current players. Like A-Rod was never that likable as a guy. I really liked him when he first came up with the Mariners. He was great and he looked a lot different than he does now (laughs). He was a little more slender. But he was great and should have won the MVP in 1996. It left a really bad taste in my mouth when he was like, “I’ve done my five years with the Mariners and now I’m going where the money is!”
I hear he has a painting of himself as a centaur.
That’s what I’ve heard too. Over his bed. We have a friend here in Portland who is commissioning another friend of ours to do a painting like that for him (laughs). Because it’s so absurd. He’s married and has kids. He’s a security guard. He’s not like a rocker.
Do you have one of yourself like that?
No, I don’t like to look at pictures of myself so much unless I am playing with Neil Young or Bruce Springsteen. I do have pictures of those occasions (laughs).
So tell me about the Baseball Project.
Steve Wynn and I came up with the idea to do it. We realized we were both baseball fans. We knew each other from bands and stuff for awhile. I’m a big fan of the Dream Syndicate and his solo work. He and Peter [Buck] have been friends for a real long time. We just realized we were both big baseball fans which you don’t necessarily assume amongst the indie rock crowd. So people don’t want to be bothered with sports and don’t have any interest at all. I understand that and applaud. It’s nice when I meet someone that’s a kindred spirit in the rock world that also is a baseball fan. So, Steve and I were going off on baseball and how much we love it. One of us said, “I always thought it would be great to do a record of songs about baseball.” The other one said, “I want to do that too! I had the same idea!” We said, “We should do it together.” Once we put it out there and threw down the gauntlet, as it were, we started writing songs and there was no stopping. We didn’t think it was going to be a band necessarily. We thought we’d make a record of songs about baseball. As we did it, we thought, “This is really cool. We should keep doing this.” So we called it Volume One and eventually went out and played. We didn’t go out and play for a year and half after the record came out because I was busy doing R.E.M. and he was doing other stuff. Now, it’s turned into a real thing (laughs).
Didn’t Woody Guthrie beat you to it?
I’m not saying nobody’s written songs about baseball. There’s a lot of those out there. I don’t think anybody’s done a whole record. Well, that’s not true. Someone probably has done it before. Well, that’s the Baseball Project story. Now we feel like a real band because we’ve actually gone out and played a lot. We’ve done two month-long tours. We play Dream Syndicate songs and Steve Wynn songs. We play Minus 5 songs. We even played a Fellows song or two and some covers. Not R.E.M. songs. Peter really doesn’t ever want to do R.E.M. songs outside of R.E.M. and I don’t blame him for that. I understand that. We really feel like a band now. It’s really cool. Most times we toured we play two sets at two and a half hours. We have a lot of material to draw on and now we have 40 baseball songs.
Hey, that’s a good section of your Crystal Hotel set right there.
Steve writes half the songs pretty much, but I am thinking about doing one or two of his that I think I might know the words to.
I hear you take part in this “Who’s Who in Music” fantasy baseball league.
The label suggested we start it when we first started the baseball project. I’d always refused to do it because I knew I would get way too into it and spend too much time with it. Because on R.E.M. tours Mike Mills was always doing fantasy baseball and also football, golf, basketball, whatever.
Fantasy golf?
Yeah, I don’t know, but he does it. He’d always be asking me, “Why don’t you be in my fantasy league?” I’d be like, “No, man, I got too much stuff to do. I would spend too much time doing it.” And he goes, “It doesn’t really take that much time.” Dude, I sit here and watch you for two hours between soundcheck and show every night doing it. So, I know you can spend time doing it. Finally, when Yep Roc was saying we should do it as part of the Baseball Project, I said okay and now I’m hopelessly addicted. I spend so much more time on it than I ever possibly should.
Is there a live draft?
No, you draft from wherever you are. Well, you can get people together. I joined a second one this year that Ben Gibbard from Death Cab for Cutie started (laughs). Yeah, believe it or not, he is a big baseball fan. He started a new one but it’s an ESPN league and I don’t even know how it works. But he was having a big party at his place where he wanted people to come and do the draft there. I was on tour or something and I couldn’t do it. In fact, I couldn’t even get at a computer. I was actually playing at a baseball game, I think, when they did the draft. We did this thing where we played all these games down at the Cactus League in Arizona a couple of months ago. So, I didn’t even get to pick my own team. They set it on auto-draft. They automatically pick you the best available player and I got a shit team.
So you got Joe Blanton.
(laughs) I actually do have Joe Blanton. But I grabbed him because my pitching was so bad that he was the best available guy I could get. Somebody else dropped him and I picked him up. This league is totally skewed towards starting pitching. But in the Baseball Project fantasy league, I have a team, Steve and Linda have a team, Mike Mills has a team, Steve Malkmus has a team.
And Steve Malkmus is winning, I read.
Yeah, he kicks our ass. He wasn’t in it the first year but we got him in the second year and he’s just destroying us. Adam Selzer is in it and Steve Berlin. So there are a few Portlanders in there but it’s people from all over.
Do you have to be famous to get into it?
No, there’s some people I don’t even know. There are guys who work in publicity. There’s a couple of Yep Roc guys. There is a guy who used to work at Yep Roc who’s in it and he’s bringing up last place. I think Adam Selzer and Steve Wynn might have come in last last year. There’s a guy from the Weakerthans in it. He’s really smart. He picks his team and doesn’t change anything during the entire season. He just lets it go. So he doesn’t have to put any time into it.
Is that smart or laziness?
Both. But the thing is that people make fun of me because I make moves every day. I’m dropping players and getting them. It doesn’t necessarily do me any good.
Well, you started out at a disadvantage.
It’s really fun. But I know myself well enough that I knew I’d get way too into it and I did.
There’s worse things you could be doing, like heroin.
That’s true. To me, it’s the equivalent of people doing Facebook. I don’t do Facebook because I know if I did it, I would spend way too much time doing it. Most people spend all their time doing that shit and I spend my time looking at baseball players’ stats and moving them in and out of my team (laughs).
The impression I get from interviews I’ve read with you is that at heart, you’re a record-collecting music geek.
That’s kind of true.
I’d like to know, off the top of your head and without putting too much thought into it, your desert island records.
Okay, the White Album. Village Green by the Kinks. Probably Friends by the Beach Boys. Here are the Sonics. That will get you to…
’65?
That’s the thing when I do these things. I come off as a guy who hasn’t listened to any music for 40 years, but I have. But it’s hard to crack the list. Tonight’s the Night by Neil Young, not Rod Stewart. Just to clarify.
Rod Stewart had a good run. His first four albums are all great.
Every Picture Tells a Story is fucking amazing. Don’t get me wrong. And the Faces are in the top five live bands I ever saw. What else? I might put Bee Thousand on there. Oh God, there’s so many I’m forgetting. Like you said, if you think about it, then you will think of 400 records. I’d put the single of “She Loves You/I’ll Get You” by the Beatles as one of my top 10 records of all time. But I said Friends by the Beach Boys, but I would do the CD that came out that has both Friends and 20/20 on it.
Over Pet Sounds?
Yes. And as much as I love Pet Sounds, and I absolutely do, but that Friends and 20/20 CD is just completely insane. It’s so good and so rich.
Which are your favorite albums that you feel not enough people know about?
I really like a lot of early ’70s English pub rock. I really love McGuinness Flint whose main songwriters were Gallagher and Lyle. I’m a huge jazz and country fan. And girl group music is my total fetish.
Have you ever thought of a funeral playlist?
Yeah, it’s only one song: “Yer Blues.” Maybe the Live Peace in Toronto version over the White Album version (laughs). That’s what I want played at my funeral. It makes good sense. It’s a real party number.
What recent music has turned you on?
I think my favorite record of last year was that Jenny and Johnny record. It was awesome. Great lyrics. Really great pop songs.
Same label as R.E.M.
Yeah, they are on Warner Bros. too. I guess there still are records on major labels. I don’t get many of them, honestly. I really don’t. I’m one of those people who when something gets really popular, I just don’t pay attention to it. It’s too bad because I’m sure Jay-Z makes great records. I know there’s good stuff out there like Mumford and Sons and the Avett Brothers. Unless I discovered it beforehand, I’ll figure I’ll just hear it because it’s around. I don’t really delve into it. But I thought that Jenny and Johnny record was really awesome. I really liked that last Belle and Sebastian record too. But I’m not an aficionado of theirs. I have some of their records and I like them a lot but I just gave this one a really good listen because I was going to see them play.
I don’t really like that duet with Norah Jones.
That one just goes on by without being really noticeable.
I do like The King is Dead by the Decemberists.
Oh, that is definitely my favorite record of this year. Except for Collapse Into Now, but I can’t say that (laughs). But they are both R.E.M. influenced.
Well, “Down by the Water” is basically “The One I Love.”
It was even closer. They had to change it a little bit (laughs). But that record is fantastic. I love that album. I really like the Hazards of Love and most people don’t. I saw them a few times on that tour because we opened five or six times with Robyn Hitchcock. But I don’t really keep up as much as I should. Amazingly, I don’t listen to music that much. I have a billion records but I’m always working on music. Then when I do I end up listening to the Kinks or the Replacements lots of times (laughs).
Doesn’t it seem like there is more and more stuff coming out than there used to be?
Yes, there’s more coming out and there’s probably great stuff, but I just can’t hear it all. I just can’t listen to it. I can’t imagine going onto MySpace and listening to the songs someone has posted on their website. Although, it is probably a great way to get into a band. For awhile, I’m sure a lot of bands got popular and built up a following by doing that very thing. I can’t imagine having the time to search these bands out.
What about word-of-mouth or a recommendation?
That’s true. I do listen if certain people tell me to hear something.
Continued tomorrow in Volume 2.
See Also: R.E.M.: Collapse Into Now
